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preludes-and-prufrock:

numol:

My Blu Tinted Glasses: Protips to privileged folks:

velocicrafter:

sanaatamir:

If you take it personally when a marginalized group is angry at a privileged group, you’re showing your privilege. It isn’t about you.

If you make it about your feelings, especially over the feelings of a marginalized group, you’re showing your privilege. It isn’t about your damn fee-fees.

If you get offended on behalf of all other members of [privileged group] over some generalization a marginalized person made, you’re showing your privilege. It isn’t about you, and we don’t care that not all X are Y, seriously.

If you feel the need to lecture the marginalized person about how they express themselves, and why their “attitude” is unproductive/unhelpful/hostile, you’re showing your privilege. It isn’t about you or your feelings or opinions, once again.

If you feel entitled to be told why [X thing] is bad, and then proceed to argue about why [X thing] isn’t bad, you’re showing your privilege. It isn’t about you or your damn opinions, and also you’re wrong and need to shut up.

If you act like you’re somehow bringing up new information that has never been considered before to a marginalized person and then get offended when you’re told to take a seat and shut up, you’re showing your privilege. It isn’t about you or your damn opinions, which are irrelevant.

If you bring up the fact that other folks from the same marginalized group disagree on [X issue] and that therefore a marginalized person with a different opinion must be wrong, you’re showing your privilege and need to sit the fuck down.

(Feel free to add to this. I’m sure I missed several.)

The only thing I’d add at the moment is this:

if you’re marginalised in one area, you may still have privilege in other areas. 

e.g.: if you’re poor & white, you lack class privilege, but still get white privilege. If you’re a gay man, you are marginalised based on your sexuality, but you still get male privilege, etc. 

[WARNING for stuff under “read more” cut: tone-argument-using, patronizing asshat]

Read More

I’m focusing on the word. On the whole the points are valid. but the can be arrived at and used without having to resort to this antagonistic use of ‘priviledge’ as if it’s something that people shoudl be ashamed of, though by the vary nature of it, having a  privilege isn’t something that people can help: ideally everyone needs to be priviledged or, rather, everyone needs to be on the same playing field. Which is why i think that accusations of privilege should be put aside in favour of intelligent discussions about being generally a decent human being and repsecting people’s cultures.

  • If you take it personally when a marginalized group is angry at a privileged group, you’re showing your privilege. It isn’t about you.
    —> no, it isn’t about that person, true. When you wiegh up someone being racially offended or culturally offended or rleigiously offended vs someone’s halloween costume of course that’s more important. but often i find that people who call out priviledges often frame it as a very personal attack on an individual rather than on a standard calling out that a theme or something that person has done is offensive
  • If you make it about your feelings, especially over the feelings of a marginalized group, you’re showing your privilege. It isn’t about your damn fee-fees.
    —-> see above point. But, yet again, that person has rights too. and a right to an opinion. it should be a discussion. it shouldn’t be a yell of ‘priviledge’ and then a shut down of all discussion, or the use of this as an excuse to be abusive to that person.
  • If you get offended on behalf of all other members of [privileged group] over some generalization a marginalized person made, you’re showing your privilege. It isn’t about you, and we don’t care that not all X are Y, seriously.
    —> generalisations hurt both ways. In fact, making sweeping generalisations about groups is inherently the definition of racism or sexism etc. They’re wrong on both sides and both sides have teh right to be offended. which is why it should be a discussion based on humans and humans. having a priviledge doesn’t automatically cancel out your right to be offended. nor does being a marginalized person automatically make anything you say right. You’re dealing with bigger issues, with themes that need to be sorted out, not race vs race or sex vs sex or gender vs gender.
  • If you feel the need to lecture the marginalized person about how they express themselves, and why their “attitude” is unproductive/unhelpful/hostile, you’re showing your privilege. It isn’t about you or your feelings or opinions, once again.

—> the automatic knee-jerk shutting down of other opinions and feelings is what irks me about the word priviledge. it really does. Because it seems to encourage an automatic snap of closemindeded by automatically assuming a moral highground that doesn’t exist in the first place. It’s stupid and wrong to turn around to a ‘marginalized person’ and lecture them about being offended. they’re usually right to be offended because it’s usually general thoughtlessness or outright idiocy on the side of the ‘priviledged’ person. but at the same time shutting down the dialouge is harmful, because it doesn’t help foster understanding. or educate anyone. and just harbours antagonism/

  • If you feel entitled to be told why [X thing] is bad, and then proceed to argue about why [X thing] isn’t bad, you’re showing your privilege. It isn’t about you or your damn opinions, and also you’re wrong and need to shut up.

—> see above. But ‘you’re wrong and need to shut up’. really? How is that useful in any way to anyone?

  • If you act like you’re somehow bringing up new information that has never been considered before to a marginalized person and then get offended when you’re told to take a seat and shut up, you’re showing your privilege. It isn’t about you or your damn opinions, which are irrelevant.

—> Opinions are never irrelevant. the world is built on opinions. you can change opinions, but that’s through mature discussion and education not agression. But I agree that people usually end up looking like fools when they try to bring up new information about somoene’s culture when they’re not that culture themselves.

  • If you bring up the fact that other folks from the same marginalized group disagree on [X issue] and that therefore a marginalized person with a different opinion must be wrong, you’re showing your privilege and need to sit the fuck down.
    —> Eeveryone’s different, so i agree with this. how one person reacts isn’t how another person reacts. and if one person is offended then you should recognise the offense and cater to that, and correct your behaviour after you understand why. but that’s reached through discussion  nd education, not being told to just ‘sit the fuck down’.

if you’re poor & white, you lack class privilege, but still get white privilege. If you’re a gay man, you are marginalised based on your sexuality, but you still get male privilege, etc.

—> a very good point that everyone needs to remember I think.

Anyways. That’s my opinion.

i’m not saying that my opinion matters than anyone else’s. It’s my blog and I post my opinions here. Agree with them or don’t. But by default you’re saying that your opinions matter more. So it’s the same argument either way.

And yes, i think that in the wrong hands priviledge is a slur. i’ve seen people use it increidbly maturely as part of a bigger discussion, using it as a simple way to describe what i guess could otherwise be called an established social or cultural majority or whatever. in that context it’s fine. But i also see it used in awful ways on tumblr by people as an excuse for, as you call it, reverse bigotory. And I stand by that.

Sorry if it sounds condescending. I just have seen the term used so childishly and nastily that I do think that having a  discussion is more adult and mature. that’s my opinion. take it or leave it.

I don’t know best. but i know that the above pisses me off and that this way doesn’t. I think this way is better. Some people do, some people don’t. But this is how I intend to interact with the world, and through writing about it i can try an engage with issues and see if anyone else feels the same way as me. if they do: fine. if they don’t: fine.

Propaganda? Really?

And asshole and asshat? really?

Ok fine. Sorry I made you angry. This is my point of view on the subject. Posted on my blog. Personally i think it’s a fair enough comment on the subject. I’m not shirking the idea of talking about majority vs minority stuff, but just saying that the way the arguments are framed really irks me.

Maybe i’m wrong and I am an asshat. I’ll just have to keep going and see if  there’s a better way to engage with it that sits somewhere between the two.

[i’m sorry it took so long for me to respond to this — it was my  responsibility and i was too slow and i apologize.]

@preludes-and-prufrock:

first: everything i-sauntered-vaguely-downwards said (link to  post).

and you’re [still] totally centering privileged people, ~crusading  for the privileged and crying “abuse” by “reverse-bigots” (and  you even say “and i stand by that” when you use the term  “reverse-bigotry”, as though you’re expressing some extremely  rebellious and not-at-all-mainstream opinion).  it seems that the  harm done to marginalized people by bigotry matters much less  to you [or not at all] than the privileged perpetrators possibly  being made to feel uncomfortable.

you’re butting in and acting like YOU get to define how the term  ‘privilege’ should be used (according to how uncomfortable it  makes YOU as a person with several privileges) and saying how  people should and should not go about having these discussions  about *their own lives*, as if you know better than they do and  as if it’s your business.  you’re acting like a parody of the type of  bigoted, pompous, self-righteous smear of a person that  sanaatamir’s talking about in their OP; it’s too bad you’re *not* a  parody.

“making sweeping generalisations about groups is inherently the  definition of racism or sexism etc.” — definitions of isms found in  dictionaries like Mirriam-Webster are not inherently correct just  because they are in a dictionary or otherwise ~official-seeming.

and no, “privilege” is not a slur, and any hurt caused by pointing  out someone’s privilege is *totally irrelevant* and *absolutely  nothing* compared to the damage done by REAL slurs.

you’re acting as though privileged people always are entitled to  say absolutely anything, which is *obviously not  true*, as has been pointed out several times, but you’re just  soooooooo sure you know better, huh?

you’re also acting like anyone who disagrees with you is against  freedom or something.

“but often i find that people who call out priviledges often frame  it as a very personal attack on an individual rather than on a  standard calling out that a theme or something that person has  done is offensive” — wrong in several ways, as i-sauntered-vaguely- downwards points out; also, more tone argument garbage.  and you frame this in a way that *completely downplays* the  damage done, the hurt caused, by the bigoted actions of privileged types.  and you  seem to imply that you’d consider said bigotry itself inherently  NOT a personal attack.

your opinions do not happen in a vaccuum — they reinforce  mainstream bigoted ideas, such as:

    * privileged types know better about marginalized  people’s lives and experiences than marginalized people do;
    * the feelings, opinions and general wellbeing of  marginalized people matter much less than the comfort of the  privileged;
    * privileged people are entitled to barge into  marginalized people’s spaces and be oppressive, abusive  asswipes — talk over people, derail, patronize, do the whole “all  about me” thing, etc. — and saying that it’s NOT ok to do these  things is infringing on basic rights and being an irrational,  screeching, abusive “reverse-bigot”;
    * “reverse-bigotry” exists;
    * “privilege” is a buzzword and a slur.

and yes, this all sure seems like status quo propaganda to me.

also: “i know that the above pisses me off and that this way  doesn’t” — you seem like you really really hate self-examining.   ever consider thinking about WHY you are so pissed off about  this, that your biases might [hint: DO] have something to do with  it?

(Source: sanaa-tamir)

post notes:

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  11. captainkock reblogged this from entropyforever and added:
    I think this all also counts when it’s a fellow privileged person standing up for marginalized people and you do this to...
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  13. entropyforever reblogged this from tigersmilk
  14. inspiringroses reblogged this from yeas and added:
    I agree with a lot of this. I know I have some privilege as a white person which I think personally is ridiculous that...
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  25. preludes-and-prufrock reblogged this from numol and added:
    Read More It”s not about who’s more important than anyone else. That’s...shouldn’t...
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  28. i-sauntered-vaguely-downwards reblogged this from preludes-and-prufrock and added:
    their privilege. But it exists, it...acknowledged, it is not antagonistic. It also dosen’t...
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  30. bittergrapes reblogged this from lavenderlabia and added:
    I humbly suggest to add about how telling someone that they are overreacting or oversensitive to a certain aspect of...
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